In this episode of The Undiscovered Metric, I sat down with Rory Hope, Head of EN Growth at HubSpot, to discuss the ever-evolving world of organic growth and how marketers can use data insights for more efficient campaign performance.
Rory's insights shed light on the challenges and opportunities marketers face, especially with the rapid adoption of AI and the ever-shifting landscape of Google's algorithm updates.
Let's dive into the key takeaways from this insightful conversation and unpack Rory's advice for navigating this dynamic terrain. Read on for the key points, or watch the full episode below.
The AI-driven algorithm revolution
As Rory points out, the past 18 months have been marked by volatility in the organic growth space, with much of it driven by the rise of generative AI. "There's been an algorithm update on the day of recording this," Rory remarks, referring to Google's August core update.
Google has been aggressively updating its core algorithms to combat low-quality AI spam, which poses a significant threat to the integrity of its search results. For marketers, staying on top of these updates is crucial.
"Google's been doing a lot over the last 18 months to update its core algorithm systems... to de-risk its results from low-quality AI spam," Rory explains. This constant thrash presents a challenge for organic growth teams, who must continuously adapt to maintain visibility and relevance in search results.
"Organic growth is still the most repeatable and predictable investment that compounds over time."
Rory Hope, Head of EN Growth at HubSpot
However, Rory emphasizes that despite these challenges, SEO remains a critical long-term investment. "Organic growth, let's say SEO, is still the most repeatable and predictable investment that does compound over time," he says. Unlike paid channels, which vanish once the budget is turned off, organic visibility continues to deliver value as long as it's nurtured.
The rise of forums and niche sites
One of the most interesting shifts Rory observes is the increasing prominence of forum content in Google's search results. Platforms like Reddit and Quora are now ranking highly for many queries, a trend that has disrupted traditional rankings for larger, more established websites. This shift underscores the growing importance of first-person, human-led content, which aligns with Google's efforts to surface more authentic, valuable information for users.
"Forum content is now ranking in the top positions for a lot of queries they didn't before at scale," Rory notes. For marketers, this means expanding their organic growth efforts beyond traditional SEO tactics. Engaging with communities on forums and niche sites has become a vital strategy for staying visible in the organic search space.
SEO in the era of AI search
As AI-powered search engines like ChatGPT and Perplexity continue to grow in popularity, marketers are grappling with how to adjust their strategies to account for these new platforms.
"Perplexity, despite their 500% year-on-year growth, is still 0.01% of the amount of searches that Google processes."
Rory Hope, Head of EN Growth at HubSpot
Rory acknowledges the hype surrounding AI search but urges caution: "Google is still growing worldwide despite the emergence of AI search... Perplexity, despite their 500% year-on-year growth, is still 0.01% of the amount of searches that Google processes."
While AI search engines offer exciting possibilities, the reality is that Google remains the dominant player. That said, it's important for marketers to be proactive about optimizing for AI-driven platforms, especially as they become more sophisticated. "You need to get ahead of the AI overviews, SearchGPT, Perplexity," Rory advises. "Growth marketers need to be there."
The expanding scope of SEO
Rory stresses that SEO is no longer just about optimizing for Google. The discipline has expanded to encompass a variety of online channels, from YouTube to forums and even podcasts. "SEO is about increasing discoverability across online channels, organically, wherever your ideal customers are searching," he explains.
This broader approach to SEO means that marketers must consider different media types beyond just text. Video content, in particular, is becoming more important as it appears more frequently in Google's organic search results.
"It's important to make sure that SEO as a discipline is considering other media types than maybe we were in the past, and that's beyond text. That's video, podcasts like this," Rory says.
Building strong partnerships for growth
At HubSpot, Rory's team works closely with other departments—particularly media and product teams—to drive growth. These partnerships are essential for aligning goals, pooling resources, and executing a cohesive growth strategy.
Rory highlights the importance of planning sessions, where teams evaluate current performance, set future projections, and identify growth levers to bridge the gap between where they are and where they need to be.
"We talk internally a lot about growth levers," Rory says. "We then evaluate with our partners, with media, with product. What can we do? What could we build? How could we optimize these blogs, build these apps?"
This collaborative approach ensures that all teams are working towards the same growth objectives, and it's a key part of HubSpot's success.
Focusing on the right metrics
One of the challenges many marketers face today is the overwhelming amount of data and metrics at their disposal. When asked to narrow it down to just a few key metrics, Rory emphasizes the importance of focusing on those that directly tie to revenue.
For HubSpot, Qualified Lead (QL) rate is a crucial metric, as it provides a clear link between marketing efforts and business outcomes.
"QL rate would be probably one of the key metrics because we can put an average revenue to a QL type, to a qualified lead type, like a product qualified hand raise or demo request," Rory explains. Focusing on revenue-related metrics, rather than vanity metrics like traffic or impressions, helps ensure that marketing efforts are driving tangible results.
Key skills for growth marketers
For those looking to build a career in growth marketing, Rory outlines three key pillars: content, analytics, and automation.
First and foremost, marketers must have a deep understanding of content creation and media. "You will not succeed unless you're able to understand how to send messages to your audience through great media," Rory says.
Analytics is the second pillar, as growth marketing is deeply rooted in data. Rory recommends that aspiring marketers build a solid foundation in data analytics, either through formal courses or on-the-job experience. "Making sure that you’re building a solid foundation in data analytics is key," he emphasizes.
"Making sure that you’re building a solid foundation in data analytics is key."
Rory Hope, Head of EN Growth at HubSpot
Finally, automation is becoming increasingly important in the growth marketing toolkit. "Automation is really about understanding where you can create efficiencies, where you can create scalability for your strategy," Rory explains.
With the rise of AI, automation tools are enabling marketers to do more with less, from automating content creation to optimizing workflows.
Staying ahead of the curve
In the fast-paced world of marketing, staying on top of industry trends is essential. Rory encourages marketers to follow influencers and thought leaders in the digital marketing space, and use tools like Feedly to stay updated on the latest news and developments. "Make sure that you're following the influencers, to hear what they're thinking about the latest trends," Rory advises.
By staying informed and continuously honing their skills in content creation, analytics, and automation, growth marketers can position themselves for long-term success.
Final thoughts
Rory Hope's insights from this podcast episode offer a roadmap for navigating the challenges and opportunities of organic growth in the AI era. While the landscape is constantly changing, the fundamentals of SEO—creating valuable, human-centered content and leveraging data to inform strategy—remain as important as ever.
By staying adaptable and investing in the right skills and tools, marketers can continue to drive growth and deliver results for their organizations.
